The Hollywood Reporter recently gathered Judd Apatow, Amy Pascal, Jason Blum, Eric Fellner, Seth Rogen, and Ridley Scott for a producer roundtable interview. Here are some highlights from their conversation:
We live in a politically charged time and in an age with more media than ever in the history of the world. Can film still have a social impact?
JUDD APATOW That's a good question. How I think about it is: People like Jon Stewart and shows like South Park have led to a younger generation thinking about things differently, maybe being more tolerant. So if you've watched people like Jon Stewart and Trevor Noah make fun of people who are prejudiced and [say] people who treat people bad are bullshitters, you might begin to form your way of reading the news. But I don't know if one movie rocks the world in such a way that people go, "Wait a second, I don't like Trump." (Laughter.) But I hope that if people see The Big Sick, they might think, "I don't know that much about a lot of the people who immigrate to this country and maybe I could tune in a little bit and be more compassionate."
ERIC FELLNER Movies can absolutely change or push a conversation, but only if they're good. And if we're not all making good movies, then people are going to migrate away from the cinema.
JASON BLUM One of my favorite things that [director] Jordan [Peele] always says about Get Out is that when you come into the movie, white people might relate to Allison [Williams] more, and black people might relate to Daniel [Kaluuya] more, but by the end, everyone is on the same side. That's probably my favorite thing about the movie.
APATOW The Big Sick premiered at Sundance the day of the inauguration. So we weren't thinking about any of this when we were making the movie, and then suddenly the Trump thing became very real, and there was all of this talk about how Mexicans are rapists and not wanting to let people into the country. And suddenly the movie felt like it had resonance around these issues — but all we were trying to do is humanize these people who live in the United States, and suddenly that became a political act.
FELLNER Just as an audience member of your movie, it was a great story about human issues. And then it was like, "Oh, my God, it's really interesting what's going on."
I want to get into Harvey Weinstein and harassment in Hollywood. What responsibility does the industry have for this type of behavior?
APATOW It's a difficult question because there is a culture of paying off people. If you're sexually inappropriate with somebody, they think, "Oh, if I speak up, am I suddenly a pain in the ass to everyone else in show business and I'll never work again?" And then Harvey's like, "Here's 150 grand, and I won't mention it to anybody." That's why it lasts for decades, because it's like a perfect system. We all hear all these rumors: "He does this, he does that." But we didn't see it. So it's hard to say, "Let's go get him," because we're not a part of it. It's unfortunately up to the people that are truly aware of it. Someone was writing those checks and somebody knew and those people on the inside, when they're quiet also, it goes on for decades and decades. But it's not hard to not be a creep. We all work in this business. It's very easy not to act like that. You can respect women. It's easy. It's demented not to. And hopefully the industry as a whole is getting fed up.
ROGEN I worked with him once a decade ago, and I was like, "This is a bad dude. I'm never going to work with him ever again." And everyone is just like, "Yeah!" But they still do. People would say to me, when I would refuse to work with him, "You know, he's old-school." And there is kind of a wink and an acceptance of that type of behavior. A lot of Hollywood people also like the fact that we work in a business that doesn't have the same rules as other businesses, and they're kind of free to have varying personalities. That ultimately also allows people to excuse a lot of horribly inappropriate behavior that shouldn't be acceptable.
Do you think Harvey's an outlier?
PASCAL No, I don't think that he is an outlier. And I think that's probably why a lot of people haven't spoken up, because I don't think that you can throw bricks at glass houses. Some of the problem is that people really believed that they'd get hurt. And it's a tragic situation for our business. The women who stood up have to be applauded because that's really, really hard to do when nobody wants to stand up, and the silence is deafening. That's the part that we're responsible for.
ROGEN There's just a lot of people who, for lack of a better word, are pieces of shit, and people just keep working with them. Because they're just like, "Well, it's a necessary evil. It's what you got to do."
PASCAL And you can make money.
ROGEN Yeah, you can make money. And like, I don't work with those people. Again, I said 10 years ago I'd never work with him. I knew nothing about any of this stuff, but it's not surprising at all. So more people need to do that. It's nice that I'm in a position where I'm successful enough to say I don't want to work with someone, 'cause a lot of people aren't in that position. But it is up to those [who are] to not work with those people and to shun them and to let people know that it's not acceptable.
What's the best advice that each of you has received about working in the industry?
BLUM Mine was recent, actually. There's this book called Ego Is the Enemy.
ROGEN I disagree with that. (Laughter.)
BLUM So there's this whole chapter in the book, which says passion is the enemy. Obviously I don't totally believe that, but it's a funny idea, and it rung very true to me. There is something really to the notion of being pragmatic. The first eight movies I produced, I wasn't passionate about the script. I read a script that I thought I could get made. And now, luckily, we're all in the position where we do things that we love. But to those starting out, I'm going to say, put passion over here for a second and be pragmatic.
PASCAL You always have a choice between your ambition and your ego. And you have to be very clear which one you're choosing all the time, because it's really hard not to choose your ego. And it doesn't work.
APATOW I'm trying to think of the best advice I've given. I remember when we were making Superbad with Seth, I think my advice was, "Less jizz, more heart."
ROGEN Yeah! (Laughter.)
APATOW It's an odd encapsulation of years working for Garry Shandling, whom I'm making a documentary about. Everything for him was about getting to the truth of people and being authentic. Garry didn't make an enormous amount of things in his life. He did great stand-up, a couple of specials and like two series that changed television. He did things that he cared deeply about. He wanted to make things that would make the world a better place, make people think, make people happier, make people in some way try to connect with other people. And so I have always thought about what Garry would do and how he made decisions.
FELLNER I think Stephen Frears gave Judi Dench that exact note. (Laughter.)
ROGEN Less jizz, more heart?
FELLNER Less jizz, more heart. She went with it, and it worked.
Read the full interview at The Hollywood Reporter.
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